"Always be without desire in order to observe its wondrous subtleties;
Always have desire so that you may observe its manifestations."
In the first one, it is the mind/witness observing or watching thought/images.
it is the meditation, to center oneself.
In the second, once you have centered yourself, you use your heart/emotions to manifest what you feel joyful about.
-petals1000uk
"Two Kinds of Naming and Two Kinds of Desire
[...]
25. It is suggested above that there are two different kinds of naming as well as two
different kinds of desire: the positive and the negative. The positive naming and the
positive desire are those that help reveal and manifest the Tao, whereas the negative
naming and the negative desire are those that becloud and obfuscate the Tao. I will
consider the latter first.
A. Negative Naming and Negative Desire
[...]
27. The naming you apply when you make an evaluative distinction such as the good and
the bad, the beautiful and the ugly is taken to be negative. For example, Chuang tzu
makes a sharp criticism of this kind of naming:
¶28. Men claim that Mao-ch'iang and Lady Li were beautiful, but if fish saw them
they would dive to the bottom of the stream, if birds saw them they would fly
away, and if deer saw them they would break into a run. Of these four, which
knows how to fix the standard of beauty for the world? You can never find a
fixed standard for these evaluative terms (the good and bad or the beautiful
and the ugly distinctions). They are all relative.
29. If you impose your own standard of the beautiful and the ugly on others, it necessarily
creates conflicts among people. For each one is different in his/her judgment of the
beautiful and the ugly. Besides, by imposing a certain standard and thus implicitly
programming people to perceive things in a certain way, unhealthy and unnatural
cravings are provoked as well, and the result is competition and disharmony. You
may see this phenomenon in everyday mass media influence, for instance. That is to
say, it is a kind of naming that does not have a positive impact on people's lives. The
same can be said about the good and the bad. So, Lao Tzu says,
¶30. When all under heaven know beauty as beauty,
already there is ugliness;
When everyone knows goodness,
this accounts for badness.
31. Secondly, the naming you apply when you make a discriminating judgment between
right and wrong, true and false, etc., is taken to be negative as well. It is a kind of
judgment which is most likely to end up in hopeless disputations which have no
ending, according to Chuang tzu:
¶32. People suppose that words are different from the peeps of baby birds, but is
there any difference, or isn't there? What does the Way rely upon, that we have
true and false? What do words rely upon, that we have right and wrong? How
can the Way go away and not exist? How can words exsist and not be
acceptable? When the Way relies on little accomplishments and words rely on
vain show, then we have the rights and wrongs of the Confucians the the
Moists. What one calls right the other calls wrong; what one calls wrong the
other calls right. But if we want to right their wrongs and wrong their rights,
then the best thing to use is clarity.
[...]
So, Chuang Tzu says above that, "if we want to right their
wrongs and wrong their rights, then the best thing to use is clarity." We must ask
however what Chuang Tzu means by "clarity." I think Chuang Tzu means by clarity
to see things from the Tao's perspective. From the Tao's perspective or from the axis
of the Tao, no such distinctions or discriminations arise. No distinction between the
good and the bad, the beautiful and the ugly, the right and the wrong, the true and the
false, etc. Everything is one (or, united) from the Tao's perspective. Chuang Tzu calls
this the "Heavenly Equality":
[...]
37. The ten thousand things all come from the same seed, and with their different
forms they give place to one another. Beginning and end are part of a single
ring and no one can comprehend its principle. This is called Heaven the
Equalizer, which is the same as the Heavenly Equality.
38. But waiting for one shifting voice to pass judgment on another is the same as
waiting for none of them. Harmonize them all with the Heavenly Equality,
leave them to their endless changes, and so live out your years. What do I
mean by harmonizing them with the Heavenly Equality? Right is not right; so
is not so. If right were really right, it would differ so clearly from not right that
there would be no need for argument. If so were really so, it would differ so
clearly from not so that there would be no need for argument. Forget the years;
forget distinctions. Leap into the boundless and make it your home!"
40. When the Way is lost,
afterward comes integrity.
When integrity is lost,
afterward comes humaneness.
When humaneness is lost,
afterward comes righteousness.
When righteousness is lost,
afterward comes etiquette.
Therefore, When the great Way was forsaken,
there was humaneness and righteousness;
When cunning and wit appeared,
there was great falsity;
When the six family relationships lacked harmony,
there were filial peity and parental kindness;
When the state and royal house were in disarray,
there were upright ministers.
==> that is so much our today's society
and for an analytical person, it is exactly like this: we enter into labelling. that is really the lowest of the low.
for as it is written, it only is a show of human cunning wit, a great falsity.
this has to come to an end. and till one hang onto it, one is bound to be drown with it.
-petals1000uk
41. Now, the naming of this negative sort (i.e., the sort invented by humans) provokes
desires of the same sort as well. That is to say, the desires provoked by this kind of
naming are not the kind of desires the possession of which make you observe the
manifestations of the Tao. Namely, they are not rooted in and derived from the Tao.
On the contrary, they are the kind of desires the possession of which keep you from
understanding and experiencing the Tao. And just as this negative naming has its
roots not in the Tao but in humans, so do these desires have their roots not in the Tao
but in humans. In Chuang Tzu's words, they are "the human," not "the heavenly":
42. 'What do you mean by the heavenly and the human?' Jo of the North Sea said,
'Horses and oxen have four feet-this is what I mean by the heavenly. Putting a
halter on the horse's head, piercing the ox's nose-this is what I mean by the
human....'
To sum up, both the naming and the desire that originate from and are motivated by
humans, not from the Tao, have a negative impact on human life by beclouding and
obstructing the Tao.
B. Positive Naming and Positive Desire
44. As I have mentioned earlier, Lao Tzu suggests on the one hand that the named has its
origin in the Tao:
45. The nameless is the origin of the myriad creatures;==> this is why separation of people is taking place on this earth. and at the end a wall of separation will divide them both. most probably, division between those who used the motherly way to name (positive desires = heaven)and those who used the human way to name (negative desires = hell)
the named is the mother of the myriad creatures.
...
Both of these derive from the same source.
¶46. On the other hand, he also suggests that desire has its root in the Tao:
Aways be without desire in order to observe its wondrous subtleties;
Always have desire so that you may observe its manifestations,
48. What is the kind of naming and desire that has its origin in the Tao, not in humans?
How does that kind leave a positive impact on human life? How can we distinguish
the one from the other?
Let us try now to identify the naming and the desire of this
kind, first. I have said above that the naming that issues from distinction or
discrimination making, such as good and bad, beautiful and ugly, right and wrong,
true and false, etc., does not originate from the Tao but from humans, and is likely to
cause disharmony and wrangling. Accordingly, they are to be excluded here.
¶49. What, then, is the kind of naming that does not have its root in humans? The names
used, for instance, to designate one's role or function in family such as father, mother,
son, daughter, etc., or in society such as ruler, minister, teacher, etc., belong to this
category, I would submit. It seems obvious to me that they are not the mere arbitrary
product of human convention. They transcend time and space and apply universally.
Applying these names do not cause disharmony, wrangling, or disputation as the
other kinds do. In other words, they do not have their roots in humans.
==>Very true. Once looking for Truth, i sought where certainty exists in my vocabulary,
which transcend cultures. or upon which all agree.
and i found the word "tree". For me the tree is a word that everyone agrees on in France.
ask anyone he tells you it is a tree. there is no dispute nor argumentation.
and i wondered how to get and extend this certainly to my whole life.
so, i sought, how we end up calling a tree a tree? where did it come from this certain naming?
this reminds me of this :
And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: “Tell me the names of these if you are truthful.”
They said: “Glory be to You! We possess no knowledge save what You have taught us. Indeed, You alone are All-Knowing, the Wise.”
He said: “O Adam! Inform them of their names.” When he had informed them, Allah said: “Did I not tell you that I know what is unseen in the heavens and on Earth, and I know what you reveal and what you hide?” [Sūrah al-Baqarah: 31-33]
so it came from a source of knowledge within, that we had forgotten.
it has been long then, we have been cut from our inside knowledge.
as for the quote, isn't it pretty? you have references everywhere. Rarely, i had seen a writer talking of "Names" yet it is those that we use to form our vision of life.
but at the same time, if we look at our today's society, what was a heavenly law of a father and a mother,
now we try to label a man as a mother in homosexual couples.
i think human kind like to destroy its own heritage, the one that is ingrain in him.
to create confusion what for?
because as it was refered into the text above, wrong labelling, from them are born wrong desires
and now these same desires demand : ) to pass from human to heavenly legitimity.
but that is a border which will burn these demands to ashes. due to their own origination which is human.
never a human can pass heavenly border, if it bears in himself discrimination.
it is said in the Kingdom of heaven you have to bear unity in yourself.
and it starts with your position inside of you, where you stand? on that central axis talken of in this articule,
the middle channel name given in sahaja yoga for your subtle system, the Rope of Allah in the quran, the Middle path in all religions.
cut the rope, try to battle with the power on the central axis, and you are brought to ashes.
for you are cutting your own life vein. it is heaven that nourishes all that is under it. human as well.
-note petals1000uk
50. Incidentally, these are also the kinds of names Confucius employed when he
propounded the doctrine of the rectification of names. According to Confucius, names
(ming) of this kind have their corresponding actualities (shih). This means, in turn,
that names (or words) are not a mere collection of sounds but have an intrinsic power.
It is important therefore that we apply correct names so that their corresponding
actualities can be realized. A wrong or an incorrect application of names (words)
would definitely interfere with the intrinsic connection between the names and the
actualities, and accordingly bring about confusion and disorder on people's lives.
For example, the word "father" has its corresponding actuality, i.e., its essential meaning,
which is to show a deep affection toward his children. It is important, therefore, for a
person to be called "father" to fulfill his fatherly role (or function), namely, to show a
deep affection toward his children. Only when he fulfills this essential role, he
deserves to be called "father." And the result is manifested in peace and harmony of
the families. Now, peace and harmony are some of the essential features of the Tao,
or, alternatively, the Tao manifests itself into peace and harmony. In other words,
when names are correctly applied, the Tao manifests itself. When a person called
"father" does not fulfill his role and thus does not meet the actuality (essence) of the
word, however, you can see the result in conflict, struggle, and disharmony of the
family members, which is actually nothing other than the beclouding or the negation
of the Tao. The same is true in the cases of "king," "minister," "husband," "wife,"
etc.; namely, all the names of this category work this way. Confucius emphasized and
used this principle on the art of governing on this ground. The point I am driving at
here is that the names of this kind have their roots in the Tao so that by using those
names correctly we can eventually see the Tao manifest itself and produce a positive
impact, such as peace and harmony, on human life.
==>beclouding of the Tao = this is what is called "Giving Lie to the Truth".
-petals1000uk
51. As regards positive desire which has the root in the Tao, I will use the same example
above. To fulfill one's role as "father" (or, to show a deep affection toward one's
children as "father") is not only an obligation, but also a desire, a natural instinct, or,
alternatively, a heavenly impulse in Chuang Tzu's term, I would think. A true "father"
desires to fulfill his fatherly role. The same is true about other names of this category
such as "king," "minister," "husband," "wife," "older brother," "younger brother," etc.
A true "king" has a natural heavenly desire to be kingly, namely, to rule one's people
with benevolence; a true "minister" has a natural desire to serve his ruler with
faithfulness, etc. Now, to fulfill the desire of this kind is to fulfill the Tao. In other
words, one experiences the Tao by following one's true desire (of this kind). They are
therefore the kind of naming and desire that does not becloud the Tao; on the
contrary, they manifest the Tao.
52. Another kind of naming, or rather saying, which is rooted in the Tao, helps the Tao
manifest itself, and guides one to experience the Tao is Chuang Tzu's "goblet words."
Chuang Tzu divides words into three kinds: imputed words, repeated words, and
goblet words. The repeated words are the words that are intended to put an end to
argument. For they are the words of the elders, and have authority. They work seven
times out of ten. The imputed words are the words that you utter by lodging yourself
temporarily at the other person's standpoint for the purpose of exposition. They are
effective nine times out of ten. The goblet words are the words that come forth day
after day, harmonizing things in the Heavenly Equality: "With these goblet words ... I
harmonize all things in the Heavenly Equality, leave them to their endless changes,
and so live out my years." According to Graham, "goblet" is "a kind of vessel
designed to tip and right itself when filled too near the brim," and the name, "goblet
words" is taken from it.
53. I would think that the goblet words have their roots in the Tao because they are the
words uttered when one follows wu-wei, the mode of action of the Tao. They are not
the words intentionally prepared, pre-meditated, calculated, planned, or reflected.
Rather, they are the words of natural spontaneity. They come into being when one
just follows the flow of each situation and responds to it. Because they are not the
words pre-meditated, reflected, calculated, etc., the speaker immediately forgets the
words once he has transmitted his meaning:
==>i find that naming "goblet words" very beautiful. in a way, a human being when an empty vessel, does receive this kind of heavenly water to be filled with and once given forget that which with which he had been filled.
it is a pretty image, that of a stream. a stream is meant to come and go. and it does not hurt, for it flows.
and you do not see its traces except in what it has manifested when passing through you.
-petals note.
54. The fish trap exists because of the fish; once you've gotten the fish, you can
forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit; once you've
gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning;
once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a
man who has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?
==> lol i think i like this writer, such a sane common sense.
Where can I find a
man who has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?
==>it is like one is in search of people who be these kinds of goblets, receptacles
so that one stream, oups human being (but is there then any distinction between human and heavenly at this point? no for sure it is all the same)... so yes, that one stream meets another.
that is real love
when you are a stream merging into another one.
but it is impossible, if the other one does not wish to be heavenly
because he is fighting to keep the title/the naming/the wording
instead of keeping the nectar of the meaning where he could only
make it sweeter by sharing it.
i remember here vine maker or even coffee maker always make their best coffees
by mixing many from many areas or countries.
first it has surprised me when i learned this.
but it is true that a sea is only made of streams of rivers
and it is not a stagnant one, but has to receive running waters
True Life cannot be lived by jailing ourselves to a counterpart or a society
which wish to stick to his own human views
it HAS to be a heavenly stream.
"O Mankind, We created you from a single pair of a male and a female and made
you into nations and tribes, so that you may know one another. Verily the most
honored of you in the sight of God is he who is the most righteous of you" (Quran
49:13).
==> again it echoes what the writer wrote :
Where can I find a
man who has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?
WHERE?
WHERE CAN I FIND A MAN WHO HAS FORGOTTEN WORDS
SO THAT
I CAN HAVE A WORD WITH HIM?
55. In brief, the goblet words are the words of the Tao that take the highest place in
Chuang Tzu's hierarchy of words. By uttering them, one practices wu-wei and
experiences the Tao.
¶56. Along the same line, it seems to me, Chuang Tzu emphasizes that it is neither silence
nor words that can express the Tao. For, the goblet words (or the words of the Tao)
are free from both silence and words. As the words that have the form of sounds and
meaning, the goblet words are certainly not silence, but they are very different from
the ordinary words which are produced by wei, i.e., premeditation, reflection,
calculation, etc.:
¶57. The perfection of the Way and things-neither words nor silence are worthy of
expressing it. Not to talk, not to be silent-this is the highest form of debate.
==>this i could only see it in the eyes of heavenly persons.
it is only through the eyes that all is said without words and yet is not silence.
yes and this is why you just need to look into the eyes of the person
to know if you are meeting Freedom or not
if you attach yourself to a society which is only human-based, then
it will be your house, jail.
but i prefer House of God to the human made ones.
Remember a house/building is first created in the mind as thought
before becoming "real" or manifesting itself on the physical plane.
so if you can already see it or not in the eyes, then why bothering expecting that which
you cannot change. you canNOT change a person, you can only CHOOSE your society.
-petals
58. That is to say, what is important is neither silence nor words, but to talk in a worthy
manner following wu-wei and become one with the Tao:
¶59. If you talk in a worthy manner, you can talk all day long and all of it will
pertain to the Way. But if you talk in an unworthy manner, you can talk all day
long and all of it will pertain to mere things.
¶60. You can follow the Tao, sometimes through silence (or, words of no-words), and
sometimes through words, depending on the context.
IV. Conclusion¶61. I have shown in this paper that the Taoist view of Language cannot be taken to be
completely negative. The negative view of language is relevant only to the kind of
naming (and also of desire) that originates from humans. But there is also the kind of
naming (and desire) that originates from the Tao. By uttering the words (and fulfilling
the desire) of this kind, we actually experience the Tao itself. In other words, the
words (and desire) of this kind are the very tools through which the Tao manifests
itself in the world of myriad creatures. All that matters is therefore to pick up these
words and talk in a worthy manner.
¶62. Unfortunately, however, such words-the words of the Tao or the words talked in a
worthy manner-are not easy to find: "Lofty words make no impression on the minds
of the mob. Superior words gain no hearing because vulgar words are in the
majority." Nevertheless, there are such words. According to Chuang Tzu, they are
complete, universal, and all-inclusive. They are, unlike little words which are
shrill and quarrelsome, clear and limpid. By uttering these words, we experience
the Tao and are united with the Tao.
source : http://www.pdfio.com/k-2171257.html
Language and the Experience of the Tao
by Young-Sook Lee
Eastern Illinois University
Carleston, IL, USA
IJFB, Vol. 1(1), Part 2, Article No. 8, 2001.
That is my CHOICE of
what a heavenly society FEELS like.
And that is my DESIRE for it.
It is FREE, it does not jail you in human made forms
and it is where adventure lies.
It is where eyes can linger on.
Though no words, silence is not,
but ALL IS SAID
in the eyes.
